tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post4159881756840210004..comments2023-07-31T07:45:24.501-07:00Comments on Laura's Simple Pleasures: Thoughtful Thursday: Vision Quest, Part 5Laura Martonehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17131901155051433491noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-71824715847588474322009-09-18T17:18:01.663-07:002009-09-18T17:18:01.663-07:00Hey, Jewels! Thanks for sharing your own thoughts ...Hey, Jewels! Thanks for sharing your own thoughts about what we experienced.<br /><br />You're absolutely right. It did feel real, and James is still the most genuine person I've ever known. I agree that he based the quests on how he lived, what he believed, and how he wanted the world to be - I think our parents sensed that, too. <br /><br />It's hard to put an experience like that into words sometimes, difficult to explain it to others without it coming off as some sort of New-Age hippie camp, but what I got out of it was a chance to, as you said, strip away all the bulls**t, focus on our inner selves, and contemplate our place in the universe. It truly was a momentous experience - I'm glad you felt that, too - and I agree that the neighbors freaked me out a little bit. Dogs, chainsaws, and rifle sounds. That's southern Mississippi for you. ;-)Laura Martonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17131901155051433491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-24385575264903549012009-09-18T16:38:43.316-07:002009-09-18T16:38:43.316-07:00I think it all worked because it felt so real. Ja...I think it all worked because it felt so real. James wasn't putting anything on. He ran the quests based on how he lived, based on his connection to the land and the people who lived there, and the systems that he felt explained the way things were, or at least, should be. There's always the potential for chicanery and new-age illusion with this kind of thing, but James was honestly the most down to earth person I knew. The structure of the quest was about stripping away a lot of the bullshit teenagers surround themselves with, and it was quite an experience out there in the Mississippi woods.<br /><br />The neighbors did scare me, though. I wrote in my journal about hearing the dogs and the chainsaws off in the distance.Julianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-68727586378792356002009-09-18T16:13:31.488-07:002009-09-18T16:13:31.488-07:00Terrific quote, Deb. And so true. In my limited ex...Terrific quote, Deb. And so true. In my limited experience, no achievement has come without a few growing pains and struggles beforehand.Laura Martonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17131901155051433491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-68462873071514417862009-09-18T15:54:23.724-07:002009-09-18T15:54:23.724-07:00Oh my goodness--what to say--what to say... :)
&#...Oh my goodness--what to say--what to say... :)<br /><br />'Every positive change--every jump to a higher level of energy and awareness--involves a rite of passage. Each time to ascend to a higher rung on the ladder of personal evolution, we must go through a period of discomfort, of initiation. I have never found an exception.'<br />~Dan Millman Debhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01603891627784763004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-9317969216901907462009-09-18T11:30:58.649-07:002009-09-18T11:30:58.649-07:00Becky - When you consider James' hippie tenden...Becky - When you consider James' hippie tendencies, yes, San Francisco seems more "compatible" with him, but somehow, he seemed to fit in the woods of southern Mississippi. Hard to have your very own medicine wheel and teepee in San Fran, methinks.<br /><br />BTW, I was kidding about the teenage rebellion... I know, those come in all shapes and sizes. I only wish I'd been more of a rebel back then... I was way too compliant. <br /><br />As to religion, though, Dan and I are both staunch atheists, so we're with your dear hubby all the way! We're proud to be the black sheep... although to be honest I've begun to conclude that my mom and dad are secretly atheists, too - both escapees of a Catholic upbringing in New Orleans.Laura Martonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17131901155051433491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-71217810050247316392009-09-18T11:25:57.869-07:002009-09-18T11:25:57.869-07:00Steph - You're probably onto something. Good d...Steph - You're probably onto something. Good does seem to triumph over evil in the story - and the Lizard is certainly no one to trifle with. As for the myth you found... wow, I thought this one was gruesome, but that one is even worse! And it does seem awfully similar... could be a variation on a theme. James followed Yaqui legends, if I remember right - so perhaps that just goes to show you how similar lessons were across tribes. <br /><br />Susan - LOL! Poor James. I feel like I really misrepresented him... As for the pipe, if I remember right, it was just some dried bark and seeds. Nothing hallucinogenic, which, at the time, I thought was a bummer.<br /><br />Bane - Leave it to you to call it a "hippie camp" - ROFL! That's hilarious about the "Bear" nickname - that's my husband's nickname, too. Okay, the similarities are starting to get a wee freaky... he even says "bollocks" a lot, just like the title of one of your recent posts. As for your take on the bear/deer myth, you could be right. What's wrong with a little thinning of the herd?<br /><br />Natalie - You have a point. Most fairy tales and myths are gruesome life lessons - myabe adults figure they'll stay with kids longer than nice ones. After all, the real LITTLE MERMAID still haunts me... and, no, I've never been a fan of Daddy-Long-Legs either.Laura Martonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17131901155051433491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-90913072922123158022009-09-18T10:52:34.173-07:002009-09-18T10:52:34.173-07:00San Francisco seems a lot more "compatible&qu...San Francisco seems a lot more "compatible" with how you've described him! <br /><br />As to the rebellion, my dad was a minister, and I'm not quite an agnostic, but pretty darn close. DH is as atheist as they get (he also came from a VERY religious Catholic family)! I'm definitely the "black sheep" in the family as far as religion goes :-).Beckyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14436825220887971278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-28805345475965114742009-09-18T10:39:23.728-07:002009-09-18T10:39:23.728-07:00Which brings me to Becky's concern... I'm ...Which brings me to Becky's concern... I'm not a parent, so I can't begin to speculate how I'd feel about the smoking bit. As a non-smoker (then and now), I didn't inhale the smoke into my lungs... but, of course, I didn't understand about second-hand stuff then.<br /><br />But the fact is... all the parents knew what James' methods were like. They'd met with him in New Orleans and checked him out, so to speak, before unleashing us on his property for a week. My mom, in particular, was rather over-protective, and she felt comfortable with him - and his intentions, which, as you suggested, were to provide us little Unitarians with a memorable rite-of-passage ceremony.<br /><br />If we hadn't felt comfortable with the smoking bit, he certainly wouldn't have forced us to do it. But we were all game! And our parents knew that it was a different kind of "smoking" - my mom, for one, knew I'd never start that bad habit, which I haven't.<br /><br />But, even as a non-parent, I can understand how you feel.<br /><br />As for James, yeah, he certainly stood out from the locals. Often, he had to chase "red-blooded" poachers off his land... they'd start messing with the medicine wheel and try to accuse him of other kinds of rituals, but the sheriff knew him, knew what he did was legit, so it was the poachers that usually got in trouble. LOL! (And, as far as I know, he still lives there, though last I heard he spends part of the time in San Fran, getting a masters, I think - I'm still in touch with his daughters, but I owe him a call, for sure).<br /><br />P.S. I agree with your assessment of vision quests, to a certain extent. While I think there's something to be said for the ritualistic, spiritual aspects, I think all of us can have that sort of "vision quest" experience just walking in the woods or sitting on the beach. It's all about meditation.<br /><br />P.P.S. Wait, I just have to say... the rebellious teen in you is a non-smoker?! That's kinda funny.Laura Martonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17131901155051433491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-21032219002833351332009-09-18T10:28:53.155-07:002009-09-18T10:28:53.155-07:00Huh. What is it about gruesome folk tales/fairy ta...Huh. What is it about gruesome folk tales/fairy tales? All I can say is that I wouldn't want to run into that Daddy Long Legs.Nataliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00861022355718378425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-46436518186719915342009-09-18T10:25:38.493-07:002009-09-18T10:25:38.493-07:00Angie - You could be right. The whole week felt a ...Angie - You could be right. The whole week felt a little otherworldly... and NOT because there was anything more than bark and seeds in the pipe. It wasn't THAT kind of vision quest. LOL!<br /><br />Although I had a powerful desire to do a "real" one with peyote and everything (I was a little too fascinated with Native American traditions back then), James was very responsible with us... we were just kids, after all. ;-)Laura Martonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17131901155051433491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-61981768467196252092009-09-18T09:15:27.182-07:002009-09-18T09:15:27.182-07:00This is what happens when you go to hippie camp :)...This is what happens when you go to hippie camp :) -- BTW, one of my wife's nicknames for me is 'Bear' and thus I felt a little kinship with the villain of this story (though, given the overcrowding of deer populations, I think 'Bear' should be lauded)Joshua McCunehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367262185912463258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-49817035059939354902009-09-18T09:08:18.915-07:002009-09-18T09:08:18.915-07:00I've got to agree with all comments above. Wh...I've got to agree with all comments above. What was in the pipe anyway????Susan R. Millshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09578747592345750650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-87178779631940983142009-09-18T07:54:55.087-07:002009-09-18T07:54:55.087-07:00OK I just have to add one thing to clear my consc...OK I just have to add one thing to clear my conscience. As a parent, I'd be very upset that an adult was abetting smoking with my child. Even if that "child" was taking part in a ceremony. Sorry, but something just doesn't sit right with me about that.Beckyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14436825220887971278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-3963748504071907812009-09-18T07:36:48.148-07:002009-09-18T07:36:48.148-07:00Hmmm... I'm not sure. It seems like it's a...Hmmm... I'm not sure. It seems like it's a type of good vs. evil with good always triumphing type thing. I know there has to be more to it, but I'm not sure. Don't piss off your granddad maybe? J/K<br /><br />I thought I'd do some research (because that's what I do) and I came across this <a href="http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/The-Bear-And-Deer-Children-Pohonichi-Miwok.html" rel="nofollow">website</a> which houses Pohonichi Miwok legends and has a similar one titled The Bear and Deer Children which talks about how thunder came to be. Check it out and let me know if you think it could be a version of the same legend.Stephanie Damorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01495050993591963629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-2048456018042444732009-09-18T06:04:21.421-07:002009-09-18T06:04:21.421-07:00ROFLMAO! I had the same exact thought as Angie! ...ROFLMAO! I had the same exact thought as Angie! When I read it, I laughed so hard! <br /><br />Whew! I'm just trying to imagine how James fit into that part of Mississippi. The family we know who lives there is ... let me see, how do I put it... very "red-blooded American"... I bet he was quite different than the rest of the folks in those parts. Does he still live there? I think we went canoeing once in that river, followed by line-dancing at the local bar.<br /><br />I'm all for vision quests. I take a mini-one each morning when I walk with my pup in the woods, but I guess I'm far too cynical when it comes to most spiritual aspects. Maybe it's the rebellious teen in me. <br /><br />I think the important part is that he was doing his best to provide you and your friends with a rite-of-passage ceremony.Beckyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14436825220887971278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1362484318535208583.post-62436723222836645702009-09-18T04:49:40.815-07:002009-09-18T04:49:40.815-07:00I think Mr. James had been toking on the pipe a li...I think Mr. James had been toking on the pipe a little too long when he shared that legend. :)Angie Ledbetterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16407006980893727627noreply@blogger.com